The WWIII Thread

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MrX
About all I know is that I don't know shit about the history between these countries and these people. It can't be a good idea to continually back the only other nuclear superpower into a corner. I'm sure both sides try to influence the politics of the countries in the middle, and I doubt either side plays fair. But if you're getting win after win against an opposition that can destroy you at will, seems to me you better let them take their stand when they choose to and stay out of it.
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it's a proxy war, it's always been a proxy war

I denounce America for this, they have 50% culpability of what's happening

state of the union was a state of celebration

but no way in hell it justifies what that crazy motherfucker is doing
 
I'm not trying to justify what's happening, but if people don't have a more open mind about all of the reasons why it's happening, it can lead to some really bad decisions. It's definitely not okay for 150,000 Ukrainians to die. It'd be even worse for millions to die, and the kind of simplistic thinking I see everywhere could lead to that.

But really I think it's pretty rich for us, as a country, to be the ones outraged by this. We just got done doing worse. And as you say, we're probably partly responsible for this too. Sanction everyone!
 
RJ, what do you personally think the best course of action is? What response right now minimizes suffering, taking all possible outcomes into account?

Legitimately asking, as I have no idea. It just seems to me that even slightly raising the chance of WWIII has such dire implications and it doesn't feel like the world is doing the math.
 
MrX
I'm not trying to justify what's happening, but if people don't have a more open mind about all of the reasons why it's happening, it can lead to some really bad decisions. It's definitely not okay for 150,000 Ukrainians to die. It'd be even worse for millions to die, and the kind of simplistic thinking I see everywhere could lead to that.

But really I think it's pretty rich for us, as a country, to be the ones outraged by this. We just got done doing worse. And as you say, we're probably partly responsible for this too. Sanction everyone!
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the manufactured media outrage is partly result of the american propanganda machine


the introspection americans have to do about what their government do in their name and with their tax money around the world, is deep, and frankly I don't how to stop this machine besides itself crumbling from within, an uneducated population is ripe to be used and abused by these war mongers
 
MrX
RJ, what do you personally think the best course of action is? What response right now minimizes suffering, taking all possible outcomes into account?

Legitimately asking, as I have no idea. It just seems to me that even slightly raising the chance of WWIII has such dire implications and it doesn't feel like the world is doing the math.
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give him an out to safe face, at this point with such disastrous intrussion I guarantee you he wants out but in order for him to survive the intelligence/military apparatus at home he needs to come out victorious, if he's perceived defeated it's his end

make all NATO members sign a letter that Ukraine will not join, make a huge media blitz about it, have the media push it hard, has to be something significant so that he can gloat that his objective was achieve

otherwise, cornered and seeing near his demise he will just try to inflict as much destruction as possible

sanctioned to hell, the americans already won, even if he makes it 10 more years in power it'll be a weak superpower
 
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Do you think there is a level of sanctions that risks causing Putin to strike at the west? Like he feels Russia's very existence is threatened to the point that he has no choice. Or do you think that talk is just rhetoric to deter further sanctions?
 
just sanctions themselves not enough, but this arming and weapons donation from european countries to Ukraine definitely can be perceived and acted upon against the west
 
My wife has started going in to the office again 3x a week in midtown Manhattan. I've given her a bug out bag (sneakers, water, food, maps, survival tools) to keep at her desk.

If she survives the blast she can get nearly 5 miles away from midtown underground and then it's only another 30 miles on foot home.

She thinks I'm crazy... but I was a boy scout and you know the motto - be prepared.
 
Boner_18
My wife has started going in to the office again 3x a week in midtown Manhattan. I've given her a bug out bag (sneakers, water, food, maps, survival tools) to keep at her desk.

If she survives the blast she can get nearly 5 miles away from midtown underground and then it's only another 30 miles on foot home.

She thinks I'm crazy... but I was a boy scout and you know the motto - be prepared.
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I carry one in my truck at all times,received as a Christmas present from Brother-in-law years ago.He gave one to all of us
 
Boner_18
She thinks I'm crazy... but I was a boy scout and you know the motto - be prepared.
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:dunno: Why not? Nice to at least pretend you have some control over your fate.

Probably a lot of scenarios that aren't a nuke that that could help with.
 
Oh great, now the nuclear power plant is burning.
 
MrX
Also, every American clutching their pearls over the senseless brutality of Russia should think a bit about the Iraq War. Russia has a much more valid claim over national security than we had (it's not even close). We killed at least 150,000 civilians, maybe as many as a million, and we didn't have our economy sanctioned into the ground over it.
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This is your opinion and I agree Bush wiping out Iraq was in hind sight a mistake. Though I remember 911 and Mr Hussein mercilessly killing probably the same amount of his own people. Plus slightly more US citizens than not favored the attack. "Valid claim" lol over a democratic run country by President Zelensky who isn't a madman like Hussein. National security? From a clearly weaker country in Ukraine who might attack them?

The entire world is condemning Putin for what he has done. Even Norway is sending military aid and I didn't even know they needed to have a military. The entire world wasn't against the US so yes no sanctions were necessary. These people in Ukraine are comrades of Putin and he's literally killing his own people.

And I agree with RJ that Putin needs to be pacified as Russia not being the loser of this conflict. Putin has already lost this war in world public perception. He's world public enemy #1. Don't know how it can be accomplished but with all those nukes Russia have don't need to humiliate him into doing something stupid.
 
Most of those nukes probably don't even work.

Fuck this moron and his derelict army. He's done.
 
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I just love the sense this makes! US becomes energy independent under you know who and now we stop the pipeline to Canada (for WTF I don't know?) but we continue purchasing Russian oil. US also says okay, let the gas line from Russia to Germany be completed. Though possibly have read this could now be held up (it should be) because of Ukraine invasion.

Also if anytime was right to open the Keystone Pipeline up, wouldn't now be the time? I mean INFLATION in kicking Americans in the butt so let's not try to assist as least in keeping the gas prices down. Helps two fold in using our own supply more (should be the case anyway) while also purchasing less from Russia.

Even Biden's fellow Dems are saying sanction Russian oil. Look at one trader's thoughts ...

"People are not touching Russian barrels. You may see some on the water right now, but they were bought prior to the invasion. There won’t be much after that," said one New York Harbor trader. "No one wants to be seen buying Russian products and funding a war against the Ukrainian people," he added.

Senator Ed Markey, a Democrat from Massachusetts, said U.S. purchases of Russian oil in 2021 would have delivered an estimated $17.4 billion to that nation. "We cannot criticize Europe for its reliance on Russian energy, as we pour dirty oil money into Russia," he said in a Tuesday statement.

Oh that's right, for stopping the progression of climate change, pollution etc etc etc whatever. Though hasn't Biden and the Dems stated by 2035 no more fuel needed? At least no more government gas powered vehicles for sure.

So let's paint this picture. The US has more fuel than God underground and if correct would last us 50+ years. We only going to need it until 2035. Though let's not increase our production but rely on buying the additional needed oil from Russia and of course the Middle East. And pay more than producing it ourselves. And though only needing it till 2035 we rather let it go to waste all that we have underground?

Washington — President Joe Biden signed an executive order Wednesday pledging to buy only zero-emission vehicles for the federal fleet by 2035. The order also sets a shorter-term deadline of purchasing 100% zero-emission light-duty vehicles by 2027 ...Dec 8, 2021
 
Washington Caps screened attendees for Ukrainian flags so as not to upset Ovie. Oh boy.

 
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