Americans Work Too Much for Their Own Good

[Muse]

They are High Risk occupations and this is one of the rewards for putting themselves on the line. Imagine what those city and states budgets would be if they had no fire or police protection.

Wal, being a fireman is one of the safest jobs out there. There motto is "no heroes today." They are VERY safe. Police on the other hand, I'll give you that, especially in Miami. But it's not just Miami, it's police in every town that are getting these pensions, not just the dangerous cities. So no, that's not why they get them. The unions have worked hard to get them these pensions and they are drowning cities and states.

In full disclosure, If I was either a fire fighter or police officer, I would support 100% for the retirement package because it would benefit me. As it is though, I'm not. So as a tax payer I'm on the hook paying for this shit and I believe that money should be used differently, not paying retired men and women 75% of their 5 highest paid years when they no longer contribute.

Wal, lots of dangerous jobs in each city not getting these pensions. The unions are to blame here. Look at what happened to Auto in Detroit Wally, each city is facing similar circumstances.

And no need to go to the other extreme and imagine what budgets would look like without either because that's illogical. There can be a happy medium. Both Police and Fire in all cities are flooded with applicants every time they hire. If there wasn't a pension would that deter some? Sure, but not many. Most are young guys that just want to get into Police and Fire and would do it without a pension and could do the job just fine.

 

[Archie]

I don't agree with firefighting being safe...

 

[Saulty]

I don't agree with firefighting being safe...

Me too. Many old buildings are a fire hazard from collapsing and not from the fire itself and the firemen are putting their lives at risk going into these buildings.

 

[Archie]

we've had a few die here in the last year...

one of my job's motto is "don't go in burning buildings"

I think my job is safer.... safer motto

 

[Muse]

Me too. Many old buildings are a fire hazard from collapsing and not from the fire itself and the firemen are putting their lives at risk going into these buildings.

Ya, but the fire fighters recognize this. They are very cautious how they approach these structures and many times they'll just let them burn and protect exposures. All jobs have some risk. Flight nurses and paramedics have a pretty risky job and recently we've seen an increase in the number of Helicopter EMS crashes. Usually, nobody survives these.

And a quick search show's I'm wrong. I'm just mad they get pensions and I don't. Haters gonna hate.

http://www.usfa.fema.gov/applicatio...p_fd_city=&p_fd_state_code=&p_death_year=2011

76 fire fighters have died on the job this year.

 

[MrMonkey]

Me too. Many old buildings are a fire hazard from collapsing and not from the fire itself and the firemen are putting their lives at risk going into these buildings.

Don't think old buildings should be a hazard if the proper engineering was done before they were built! And these guys get 6 figure+ pay! Unreal!

 

[Saulty]

Don't think old buildings should be a hazard if the proper engineering was done before they were built! And these guys get 6 figure+ pay! Unreal!

So you expect a Model T Ford to run the same way now as it did 100 years ago? Buildings age too. They are not made to last forever.

 

[senco78]

no sick days
no paid vacation
no retirement
no job security

living the life

 

[Archie]

and nail gun danger

 

[choo]

buildings should be made to last forever.

firefighters just up and dying is fucking crazy, maybe that should be looked into? like wtf these people arent dying of "stress/overexertion".

 

[MrMonkey]

So you expect a Model T Ford to run the same way now as it did 100 years ago? Buildings age too. They are not made to last forever.

When's the last time an auto collaspe on a firefighter?

 

[choo]

I work WAY too hard.

Most weeks I work at least 50 hours a week and many times I work 55 hours a week.

I get 24 hours of Personal Time a year. I'm not sure at what rate I accrue Vacation Time and Sick Time but it goes up as I gain seniority.

I have 250 hours of sick time on the books and I called in sick for an entire week a few weeks back when I had strep throat.

I can work on the holidays and get paid the holiday rate or I can take the day off. I usually work (except on Christmas and New Years Day)

i cant tell if that first sentence is sarcasm or not

 

[Archie]

buildings should be made to last forever.

firefighters just up and dying is fucking crazy, maybe that should be looked into? like wtf these people arent dying of "stress/overexertion".

actually I just looked at the list that muse posted.... lot of those guys just collapsed while in the station, or in their sleep, lots of heart stuff... that was not directly related to actually fighting fires in the moment.

I remember reading a few articles back when I was pre-med involving studies where "high-adrenaline" jobs done for many years, led to shorter life spans. Which makes sense.

maybe Muse can shed some more light on that since he works with hearts

 

[choo]

I remember reading a few articles back when I was pre-med involving studies where "high-adrenaline" jobs done for many years, led to shorter life spans. Which makes sense.

maybe Muse can shed some more light on that since he works with hearts

lol ya and football teams that run the ball more win more football games.

 

[Muse]

Archie,
Thanks for looking into those deaths. I admit I did not. Having worked with firemen for years, I was very surprised that 76 men died "on the job." It makes more sense that some, maybe even a majority of them, are cardiac deaths while on the clock. Not related to the perceived dangers of the job. Firefighters, especially in bigger cities, are very well trained and take as little risk as possible. They almost always live to fight another day.

About the other part, I've never seen the study but it would not surprise me. Adrenalin has a wide spectrum of effects on the body, some very beneficial at the time but ultimately the effects are usually negative over the long term. Not only does adrenalin lead to high blood pressure and higher heart rates but in an already sick heart a big rush of adrenalin can be a death sentence. You know, one of the only medical therapies that have ever been shown to decrease morbidity and mortality in heart attack patients is the administration of a beta blocker like Lopressor. This is because Lopressor blocks the Beta 1 receptors sites and disallows adrenalin from attaching to those sites and exerting the effects. When the beta 1 receptor site is stimulated by adrenalin the person will experience higher heart rates and blood pressures. Well, in a heart that is already starving for oxygen because of plaque build up or blockage, increasing the workload of the heart can be lethal. So it does not surprise me that people in "high adrenalin" jobs die more frequently of cardiac deaths.

Also, a lot of times we tend to eat like shite. Police officers and EMS are the worst, lots of fast food and 7-11 hot dogs. These types of diets are associated with cardiac disease and high blood pressure and are independent risk factors for heart attacks. So expose someone with cardiac disease and high blood pressure to frequent adrenalin rushes, it's very synergistic and ya eventually they're gonna get got.

IMO, the best thing for firefighters, police, EMS and ICU/ER nurses can do is frequently get checked up by your doc and talk with them about getting on a ACE inhibitor (lisinopril) and beta blocker to negate the constant effect of adrenalin. Also, take your heart rate and blood pressure on the job, you'd be surprised how much higher it is.

I just recently took the blood pressure and heart rate of a nurse I work with right before she was getting a very sick surgical patient, she is about 5'2" and 100lbs, and her HR was 95 and her blood pressure was 146/102. I know it's anecdotal but I assume it's probably the norm.

 

[Tron]

I wonder why cities and states struggle with budgets. Firemen get similar pensions. The MDP union has done a great job exploiting the tax payers.

Come to work with me one day and wrestle with the HIV+ guy who stole merchandise from Walmart and punched a clerk on the way out.

 

[Archie]

I think Daffy and Muse would make a great tag team pair

 

[Muse]

Come to work with me one day and wrestle with the HIV+ guy who stole merchandise from Walmart and punched a clerk on the way out.

Daft, I wrestle with HIV+ people regularly. I'm very pro-police and if anyone deserves a pension, I'd say it's you guys. But at what expense? Alternatively, I saw that the guy that was assaulted outside Dodgers stadium some time ago may accrue around 50 million dollars in medical bills over his life time. Is it worth it? Questions that need to be asked.