All Were Asking is to Learn English.

[MrX]

Valid point.

Are you sure that's a valid point? I'm not familiar enough with history to know the answer, but it seems to me that those immigrants tended to live in large clusters, probably just as segregated from English-speaking society, if not more, than Mexican populations are today. I'd be shocked if all of the local businesses at that time didn't conduct business primarily in the immigrants native language.

As for the government catering to the immigrants' language, well, I don't think there was nearly as much interaction with the government back then. And, if I had to guess, I'd guess that when the government needed to communicate with non-English speaking immigrants, they did what was necessary to make it happen, just like they do now.

 

[Matty]

Are you sure that's a valid point? I'm not familiar enough with history to know the answer, but it seems to me that those immigrants tended to live in large clusters, probably just as segregated from English-speaking society, if not more, than Mexican populations are today. I'd be shocked if all of the local businesses at that time didn't conduct business primarily in the immigrants native language.

As for the government catering to the immigrants' language, well, I don't think there was nearly as much interaction with the government back then. And, if I had to guess, I'd guess that when the government needed to communicate with non-English speaking immigrants, they did what was necessary to make it happen, just like we're doing now.

I'm not sure what part of history you're referring to. I'm just agreeing with MrMonkey that Spanish speakers who live in hispanic microcosms have little incentive to learn the de facto national language. Quebec has a bunch of programs that make a decent portion of new immigrants choose to learn French - among other things, employers can write off the cost of sending their staff to French classes. But sure, if new immigrants need English forms and want nothing to do with French, we've got them covered too... they'll just have to deal with the fact that the official language of business is French throughout the whole province. Use English or your native language as you wish, even when doing business, but you're expected to serve the French majority in French. I dunno if you see what we did there.

So IMO that shop-owner has the right attitude - he's just using a retarded sign. A simple "we speak English" without any misguided use of patriotic colors would do the trick. Again, no one at the federal level ever thought it would be a good idea to declare English the official language (people have tried, but no law was ever passed.) Several states did pass laws, but I'm pretty sure that they only apply to govt-related affairs, not business as a whole. You guys even print voting ballots in multiple languages, which is counterproductive if one's goal is to establish a common language for general social interaction.

Are there Spanish-language schools in the States? Serious question.

 

[Emmi]

One more little comment, MrMonkey, please make sure to always capitalize verbs in a title (especially when you write other words that should indeed be capitalized in caps as well). Those are the small things that make a big difference, trust me. And I am still curious what you have to say about immigrants merely being able to speak the language and not to write/read necessarily. Language proficiency should, in my eyes, not be limited to listening comprehension and speaking skills.

 

[MrMonkey]

Are you sure that's a valid point? I'm not familiar enough with history to know the answer, but it seems to me that those immigrants tended to live in large clusters, probably just as segregated from English-speaking society, if not more, than Mexican populations are today. I'd be shocked if all of the local businesses at that time didn't conduct business primarily in the immigrants native language.

As for the government catering to the immigrants' language, well, I don't think there was nearly as much interaction with the government back then. And, if I had to guess, I'd guess that when the government needed to communicate with non-English speaking immigrants, they did what was necessary to make it happen, just like they do now.

No need to go any further MrX after that beginning statement!

"Think'" and you can be 99.9% right but still be wrong. "Know" and your 100% right! MrMonkey KNOWS!



PS MrX, still with the number crunching!

 

[Emmi]

Are there Spanish-language schools in the States? Serious question.[/QUOTE]

Yes.

 

[MrMonkey]

Emmi you little flower, I will tend to you later!

:yawn:

 

[Matty]

Yes.

Schools where the whole curriculum is dispensed in Spanish? That seems hard to believe. Link a brother up.

 

[MonkeyF0cker]

Mr. X is correct.

 

[MrX]

I'm not sure what part of history you're referring to. I'm just agreeing with MrMonkey that Spanish speakers who live in hispanic microcosms have little incentive to learn the de facto national language. Quebec has a bunch of programs that make a decent portion of new immigrants choose to learn French - among other things, employers can write off the cost of sending their staff to French classes. But sure, if new immigrants need English forms and want nothing to do with French, we've got them covered too... they'll just have to deal with the fact that the official language of business is French throughout the whole province. Use English or your native language as you wish, even when doing business, but you're expected to serve the French majority in French. I dunno if you see what we did there.

So IMO that shop-owner has the right attitude - he's just using a retarded sign. A simple "we speak English" without any misguided use of patriotic colors would do the trick. Again, no one at the federal level ever thought it would be a good idea to declare English the official language (people have tried, but no law was ever passed.) Several states did pass laws, but I'm pretty sure that they only apply to govt-related affairs, not business as a whole. You guys even print voting ballots in multiple languages, which is counterproductive if one's goal is to establish a common language for general social interaction.

I was only referring to MrMonkey's claim that past non-English speaking European immigrants weren't catered to as much as today's Mexican immigrants. I find that hard to believe, and I'd like to see some evidence beyond MrMonkey's word.

Are there Spanish-language schools in the States? Serious question.

I think we still have quite a lot of bilingual education.

 

[Matty]

I think we still have quite a lot of bilingual education.

That's fine, ideal even.

 

[MrX]

That's fine, ideal even.

Well, rest assured that there are a ton of people working very hard to get rid of it!

 

[MonkeyF0cker]

There remains evidence of those "clusters" of immigrants in many large American cities even today. If you drive through the burroughs of NYC, you'll see the various segregations of cultures.

 

[Matty]

Well, rest assured that there are a ton of people working very hard to get rid of it!

lolz, solid sense of priorities.

 

[Mrs. X]

My grandfather came to the U.S. from Italy when he was 12 not speaking a word of English. When he went to school, they put him in kindergarten. I think that really messed him up. He was a keep to himself kind of guy so I only got bits and pieces of stories here and there. I would have liked to have known more.

They started a tile company and ended up doing well for themselves. I'm not sure how they went about learning English. Allthough they spoke Italian with their Italian friends around the dinner table with brandy, coffee and biscotti, English was primarily spoken.

I'm not really trying to make any points or anything. Just telling a story.

 

[Nick]

My grandfather came to the U.S. from Italy when he was 12 not speaking a word of English. When he went to school, they put him in kindergarten. I think that really messed him up. He was a keep to himself kind of guy so I only got bits and pieces of stories here and there. I would have liked to have known more.

They started a tile company and ended up doing well for themselves. I'm not sure how they went about learning English. Allthough they spoke Italian with their Italian friends around the dinner table with brandy, coffee and biscotti, English was primarily spoken.

I'm not really trying to make any points or anything. Just telling a story.

Many Americans have stories like that to tell. I hope those stories will never die out. Thanks for sharing, Mrs. X.

 

[Bread]

MR X VS. MATTY RAIN FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!

 

[Mrs. X]

Many Americans have stories like that to tell. I hope those stories will never die out. Thanks for sharing, Mrs. X.

hey Nick.

 

[rito]

My favorites are the old fat gringo ex-pats that sit around Colombia bitching about how the US sucks and complaining about shit like Mexicans not speaking English. Keeping in mind that these assholes live here and don't speak shit for spanish.