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Waiting For Superman: Flawed, Failing and Fraudulent Educational System

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MonkeyF0cker
I don't see your point if you're admitting that nothing would have changed. There is a far greater influence at work. Parenting and culture - both of which are bankrupt in America.
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Why are you questioning points I have conceded too? It might be a strategy for a debate competition but it distracts from the point. Regardless of contributing factors (all of which play a role) the one factor that can be changed gets a pass as long as we point fingers at everything else.

The likelihood of changing parenting skills and or culture isn't likely and beyond the scope of what's practical. What is realistically manageable though is our education system. By doing anything less than everything possible is a poor reflection on us as a nation. If our goal is to not fall short of Japan, China, Russia, Findland and so on then there is no room for acceptable failure rates.
 
wal66
Why are you questioning points I have conceded too? It might be a strategy for a debate competition but it distracts from the point. Regardless of contributing factors (all of which play a role) the one factor that can be changed gets a pass as long as we point fingers at everything else.

The likelihood of changing parenting skills and or culture isn't likely and beyond the scope of what's practical. What is realistically manageable though is our education system. By doing anything less than everything possible is a poor reflection on us as a nation. If our goal is to not fall short of Japan, China, Russia, Findland and so on then there is no room for acceptable failure rates.
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So you want to start tinkering with the smallest influence in their education (when that system has worked just fine for millions of people) and think that it's going to make a big difference? Because you saw a movie?
 
kato
if my son fails at school - that's on me wally

if the teacher fails - that's on me - my son will go to another school
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That's admirable Kato but what happens when zoning restrictions doesn't allow your child to attend a different school unless you move? What happens when due to overcrowding or limited admissions your child isn't accepted at a different school in your area? Maybe you can afford to uproot, leave your job and relocate so to afford your child a better opportunity but what about those that can't?

Why should everyone and everything else have to change if the problem is the school or specific teachers?
 
wal66
That's admirable Kato but what happens when zoning restrictions doesn't allow your child to attend a different school unless you move? What happens when due to overcrowding or limited admissions your child isn't accepted at a different school in your area? Maybe you can afford to uproot, leave your job and relocate so to afford your child a better opportunity but what about those that can't?

Why should everyone and everything else have to change if the problem is the school or specific teachers?
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Home school.

/thread
 
wal66
That's admirable Kato but what happens when zoning restrictions doesn't allow your child to attend a different school unless you move? What happens when due to overcrowding or limited admissions your child isn't accepted at a different school in your area? Maybe you can afford to uproot, leave your job and relocate so to afford your child a better opportunity but what about those that can't?

Why should everyone and everything else have to change if the problem is the school or specific teachers?
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MonkeyF0cker
Home school.
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home school is good

charter schools

bite the bullet, cut the budget - send my son to private school

lots of options
 
MonkeyF0cker
So you want to start tinkering with the smallest influence in their education (when that system has worked just fine for millions of people) and think that it's going to make a big difference? Because you saw a movie?
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What about the ones the system failed Focker? Life will fail some, others will simply fail themselves and while that is tragic there is little that can be done in the grand scheme of things to correct it. The school system can be legislated for change though. So while it may or may not be the lesser problem it is the one that something can be done about.

I'm not 100% sure you believe what you are arguing or if you are just bored.
 
wal66
What about the ones the system failed Focker? Life will fail some, others will simply fail themselves and while that is tragic there is little that can be done in the grand scheme of things to correct it. The school system can be legislated for change though. So while it may or may not be the lesser problem it is the one that something can be done about.

I'm not 100% sure you believe what you are arguing or if you are just bored.
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EVERY system fails somebody and so will whatever it is you're trying to propose. Get used to it.
 
I am sorry but I have to say I kind of agree with Kato.
Not only is there other options, but if your child isn't getting what they need at school, it is just as much the parents job to carry that
education on at home. It is a parents job to educate the child as well, not just the school or teacher. there are also in these lower income areas or what have you tutoring too, a lot of youth centers will help.

"it takes a village to raise a child"

it takes the parents, the school, the community, family, friends, but mostly, the parents.
 
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That grin that the kid has on his face in the 2011 cartoon ...
 
kato
also wally - it seems you fall into the camp that it is the nations/states responsibility to raise children.

that is the difference
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Kato, your assumption is incorrect because we aren't talking about raising the children we are talking about educating them. As far as educating them goes you pay taxes and some of those taxes go to funding the schools so yeah they have an obligation to educate them. We have an obligation to expect them to weed out the bad teachers.

Again. it's admirable that you would be willing to home school your child. It's also great that you or your wife would be able to quit work and that the other spouses income would be enough to support that decision. What happens if it's just you though?

It's great that everyone here is taking accountability for their own it's just asshame that none of you are willing to consider that not everyone is afforded the same advantages.

I guess now I'm also championing or making excuses for the underprivileged and disadvantaged though, right?
 
wal66
Kato, your assumption is incorrect because we aren't talking about raising the children we are talking about educating them. As far as educating them goes you pay taxes and some of those taxes go to funding the schools so yeah they have an obligation to educate them. We have an obligation to expect them to weed out the bad teachers.

Again. it's admirable that you would be willing to home school your child. It's also great that you or your wife would be able to quit work and that the other spouses income would be enough to support that decision. What happens if it's just you though?

It's great that everyone here is taking accountability for their own it's just asshame that none of you are willing to consider that not everyone is afforded the same advantages.

I guess now I'm also championing or making excuses for the underprivileged and disadvantaged though, right?
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that's not it. the point is that if you have a child - you are responsible for that child. i agree with you about accountability, but as a realist - that won't happen. i would rather take the matter in my own hands.
 
The union in a school is to protect the students and the teacher. The job of the union isn’t to protect tenured teachers, but it can help to get rid of the “useless” teachers that are not pulling their end. Tenure is not exclusive to union protection. In schools, administration and parents often ask the teachers to do things outside of their job. The union is there to ensure that the teacher is doing the job that they were hired to do, not constantly adjust to the whim of administration or parents. Unfortunately, some teachers fly under the radar, but that is not necessarily because they are protected by tenure or the union. Does it help? Sure, but you are making a very generalized statement about union rights for educators.
 
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